The Boston Globe

Opinion

SCOT LEHIGH

Dueling philosophies from Obama and Romney

Debate One is history — and here’s a take you probably won’t read anywhere else in America: This was an interesting and informative encounter. And though he might have benefited from a pre-debate espresso, Barack Obama nevertheless had a pretty good night.

Now, I’m acutely aware that mine isn’t the majority opinion. On Fox News, a jubilant Sean Hannity seemed ready to pop open the champagne. Across the dial, Chris Matthews’s head was ready to explode, so great was his frustration that Obama hadn’t gone for the jugular the way he would have if only he’d spent long, instructive evenings watching MSNBC.

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the middle class has lost 4000.00 a year in income, gas and food price are out of reach for most families, is that the help your talking about?

 

We need JOBS, JOBS and more JOBS, we need a smaller government, it's choking this country. the only JOBS government can create are government JOBS, at a very high expense to the tax payer. We need a better business environment. Read this survey of 800 businesses.

 

Small Businesses and Manufacturers: Government a Barrier, Not a Help, to Economic Growth - National Association of Manufacturers - Manufacturing Association

 

 

 

Let's be clearer. Mr. Romney wants to one up President George W. Bush. More cash via imprudent tax cuts for those who don't need it, a larger military, slash education and Big Bird as examples, and continue policies to keep a cheap labor pool. This election is more of a crossroad for this country. Do we understand that a nation is citizens who not only work for their own prosperity but also those of others because it is in our own interest. It is not a matter of sharing wealth. It is recognizing almost all citizens contribute to the greatness of this country and should be paid enough to at least live a livable life.

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Good article, Scot. You'll get used to telling it like it is, and eventually it won't feel uncomfortable at all.

The debate showed Mr. Romney's ability to destroy the Democrat fable that lowering tax rates equals lowering tax revenues.  For that to be true, the economy would have to be a static, non moving metric that never changes.  But as Romney articulately pointed out, lower rates creates MORE tax payers, and leads to larger aggregate tax collections from the wealthy.  That is the reason, by the way that 47% of the people pay no income taxes.  The Bush tax plan made it MORE progressive, and actually raised the amount of tax revenues collected from the wealthy.

It would have been great if Romney rebutted the idea that the tax increases of 1993 led to the strong economy of the late 1990s.  That would only be true if those tax increases caused the internet/y2K bubble, which even Al Gore does not seem to believe.

Mitt was great at pointing out how the oft repeated soude bites take on a level of believability.  But he skillfully reminded us all that false sound bites are not any more true, no matter how often they are repeated.  This debate was about substance over platitudes, and Mitt Romney won because his facts and logic were on target.

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Lowering tax rates does lower tax revenues. That's no fable, it's a fact. How can it not be. It's simple math/logic. Only broadening the tax base results in more revenue at lower rates. Only more decent paying jobs will accomplish that end. New paragraph But where are the jobs? In our economic system, bubbles appear to be the job creation mechanism of choice. Bubbles are fueled by debt. When bubbles burst, banks, companies and individuals must deleverage. You can't lend/spend what you don't have. Housing and dot.com were the last two bubbles. The former was a doozie, bringing the world to the brink of economic collapse. New paragraph Obama implemented a Keynesian tactic to stop the bleeding. It succeeded in avoiding a slide into a 2nd Great Depression. It was the right thing to do. Probably should have been bigger. Now where stuck in a long period of deleveraging. The Fed has responded with a couple of programs, QE and Operation Twist, aimed at lowering short and long term interest rates with the hope of spurring more lending/spending/consumption. The results are disappointing, but not because they are the wrong thing to do, but because the hole dug for the global economy by the latest bubble bursting is so very, very deep. Let's leave aside for a moment the obvious criminality by Wall St that was the biggest shovel used to dig the hole. New paragraph Eventually, balance sheets will adjust and consumption will pick up. This is a fundamental tenet of capitalism. The question is, how do we get from bust to full recovery in the shortest time possible with the least amount of pain. The choices offered by Obama and Romney are in sharp contrast. New paragraph Whatever Romney says about taxes or the middle class (that he now professes to love) he is a liquidationist at heart. This is an oxymoron since liquidationists have no hearts. 'Let Detroit Go Bankrupt' is exhibit A. This is a long and painful path to take towards recovery. But it does come with lower taxes for rich people. New paragraph Obama, by contrast, is sticking with Keynes i.e. use the government to ward off economic disaster for millions while the system corrects itself. The tricky part is using monetary policy to stabilize the current situation while keeping an eye on inflation as things are sorted out. The Feds policies are working albeit slowly. The extent of deleveraging is so great that we are in a liquidity trap. Passing a jobs bill would certainly help; the country's infrastructure is in dire need of repair and people might feel better if they saw a tangible return on their investment as opposed to simply printing money and giving it to the banks. The republican held Congress more or less assures this won't happen. New paragraph So for me the choice is clear; the path with the least amount of pain that benefits the most people has been paved by Keynes. We've been here before. WWII was the mother of all Keynesian stimuli. It was the culmination of a 15 year slog and was triggered in part by the austerity measures imposed on Germany at Versaille. I think Obama has the skills to maneuver us out of this situation without starting WWIII. I have no such confidence in Romney no matter how good a debater he may be.

One comment Romney made hasn't seen much coverage in the press. In the context of their discussion of education, Romney said he favors eliminating the two federal programs now in existence (Title I and Special Education) and then give the money to parents so they can "choose" a charter school or private school. This is of course, nonsense. First of all, Title I is the money now being used for Race to the Top and without an organized national effort. One with substance, the United States will fall further and further behind the rest of the world. We're not going to make progress by passing a little money out to the parents of poor kids and telling them"good luck!" And with Special Education,I think someone with some gravitas needs to call Romney to the carpet every time he opens his golden pie-hole about reducing services for the most vulnerable among us (whether it be the elderly, the sick or the disabled).

I have said since the start of this campaign that this election is about dueling views regarding what America is really about.  I think Scot has hit some of it but it is far deeper than merely economics.  Mitt is not an isolated elected official who will at will impliment only that which he desires.  No he is at the moment the head of a Republican Party dominated by Southern leadership.  Dominated by a Southern leadership that desires to undo the progress that this nation has made over the last 152 years.  This party desires to restrict and control the rights of women in the areas of health and labor.  It desires to restrict and limit the ability of minorities to vote and engage in the activities of our government.  This is a party that's first reaction to foreign crisis is to beat upon the drums of war and then when the war is over restrict benefits and assistance to the returning veterans.

Today's Republican Party is in the thrall of the childishness of Ayn Rand, the mythology of the religious right and a revisionist history matched only by the Soviet Union in its hey day.  Living here in the South I hear if from local politicians all of the time, it is a return to states rights a righting of the wrongs brought about by the Civil War.  What we are seeing in Southern politicians is a joyous hope of in the end winning the old "glorious cause".

The press once in awhile hears and writes about the Aiken's or the West's, but the press doesn't hear the barroom talk, the luncheon talk, the local pol at the town meeting.  These people want a stripped powerless federal government.  Romney I could care less about.  He is what he was as Governor of Mass. a man seeking a title.  But this Republican Party is I truly believe the greatest threat to this nation in many, many years.  Simply because it is a legitimate party and it is making an argument to a people that believe it cares about the functioning of the federal government. This Republican Party, this southern Republican Party does not have the best interests of the federal government in its heart.  This party would have us be 50 nations under its "chosen" God quite divisable and quite controlled by their own monied interests.

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Right on the money. Today's Republican party is very dangerous because of the mythology zealots running it. And one of the many great dangers of religious nuts running anything is that there are no rules. The end, doing God's work as it has been whispered in each individual's ear, is justified by any and all means. They disreagrd anthing that gets in the way of what God just told them to do just 5 minutes ago. The extremes they will go to along these lines have been illustrated by thier deadly attacks on clinics and doctors perfroming abortions in the past, and their delight at the thought of bombing Iran. People....PLEASE do not let these guys run the country!!! And as more proof that they want to go back to "States Rights", I give you blowfish John Sununu calling President Obama lazy. Now if you put that with Romney calling the 47% too lazy to take personl responsibility, and Rick Sanctorum slipping and referring to welfare folks as "blah" people (he almost said Black)what you have to conclude is the Republican Party is calling The President a lazy black man!!! Jesus Christ!!!!

Attaturk, you and I share a sentiment vis a vis the GOP having been taken over by Dixiecrats. Maybe it's time to embrace the horror for a while. They proved during the Civil War that they can't govern. Maybe it's time to call their bluff, put them in charge, and let the masses hang them when they prove once again they are incompetent.

With a Romney presidency and subsequent Supreme Court nominations we could see an end to most of our efforts to protect the environment, an end to all abortions (it is what it is folks) and a prohibition to using race as a factor in hiring or in college acceptance. Oh, if you like those ideas, you could also see Rick Santorum in a power position (maybe next to Michele Bachman). They're Back!!! I can't wait.

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Roe v. Wade is notr going to b e over turned.

This sounds like one of those ol' Mitch Miller sing alongs. C'mon, "folks" stand up and wave your arms with the bouncing ball. The end of the world is at hand. No mo green, no mo' nuthin' we love! A those windmills are the solution. C'mon, Giermund, get real!

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Mr. Obama says he will create an economically healthy middle class by hiring 100,000 new teachers. This is his "job" proposal? He also says the middle class deserves their "fair" share. Government spending, he says, will juice up the economy and give the middle class more money to spend. If you suck the community's income for public sector jobs from their taxes, aren't they the new employers? Is that his idea of the growth of new business? Romney's Proposed Cutting of beloved government programs like PBS will cost him the election? Obama's debate Information had gaps that would fill the Grand Canyon. No federal budget has been submitted since he stepped into his White House. His stock answer is to eliminate all those millionaires and billionaires except the ones contributing to his reelection campaign. Debate performance aside, the fact is he had no answer as to how the only growth America has had for four years has been in unemployment, food stamps and the astromonical Chinese funding of our national deficit.

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Tell ya what- hand Rush over, gagged, and you can take PBS.

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The red jerseys are out in force doing enthusiastic jumping jacks this morning.  Seems a particularly invigorated cheerleader spouting platitudes has also given them his own brand of amnesia.  Mitt won't remember what he said in the first debate the next time you hear him.  He'll be too busy trying to figure out what he thinks needs to be said at that moment.  Sure, there are different visions for the world.  One leads towards towards emphasis on individual responsibility.  One leads towards an attention to community responsibility.  It is absolutely true that both visions of the world are important, and need to be integrated into the whole.  But that's a separate topic from whether anyone - either red jerseys or blue jerseys - can acccept Mitt as a key player in the conversation.  He does not belong anywhere close to any power.  The man is not trustworthy.  

Ah, Waytoo, the all important issue of the size of Obama's American flag lapel! How could everyone else have overlooked it? Pro-fox: Here, I think you overlook the fact that one of the weights on job creation has been the big loss of teachers (and cops &tc) at the local level. Begolf: Why do you say Roe won't be overturned? Replace one or two justices with more Alito-Scalia-Thomas types and it probably will be. Richmond: What was it the Old Gipper said? "There you go again ..."

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Scot, you really need to get away from the tax policy analysis. I have shown other studies here that show it is possible. Net-net, as was shown in an interview lasst night between Erin Burnett and Stephanie Cutter (who is a joke). She admits:

Burnett: “Right. So you’re saying if you lower them by 20% you get a $5 trillion tab, right?”

Cutter: “It’s a $5 trillion tab.”

Burnett: “But then when you close deductions it’s not going to be anywhere near $5 trillion. That’s our analysis.”

Cutter: “Well, okay, stipulated, it won’t be near $5 trillion, but it’s also not going to be the sum of $5 trillion in the loopholes that he’s going to close.”

Obama is also grossly lying about his tax plan and his "support" for the middle class. Obamacare has taxes (both direct and passed on) that will directly impact the MC. He has not been able to drive any job or wage (both lower) with his keynesian policies. Will they finally work now? How is he going to fund the teachers? Local gov's are already strapped, especially the inner city (see the recent Chicago debacle). So how does he pay for this? He uses accounting gimmicks to get to his numbers. 1m manufacturing jobs? How? See the baltic index and Fedex numbers recently? And Obama has not necessarily shown himself to be a big free trade guy b/c of his union ties. So where do all these products (annd demand) come from?

Jeff Sessions released a statement today with key parts here:

Tables S-1 and S-4 from the summer budget update show a $1.8 trillion tax increase. So for the President to promise 2.5 times as many spending cuts would require reductions of $4.5 trillion. But table S-4 shows outlays of $46 trillion—a spending request $1.4 trillion greater than what we are currently planning to spend. Overall, under the President’s plan, the federal budget will grow 58 percent larger—from $3.6 trillion today to $5.9 trillion in 2022. The gross federal debt, as shown in table S-14, will rise $11 trillion from last year’s debt total—to $25.4 trillion in 2022.

As for the President’s mysterious $4 trillion in deficit reduction, it’s nowhere to be found. The President’s net change in spending is a $1.4 trillion increase and his net change in taxes is a $1.8 trillion increase—leaving less than $400 billion in deficit reduction, one-tenth of what he pledges. As Glenn Kessler writes: “The repeated claim that Obama’s budget reduces the deficit by $4 trillion is simply not accurate… fake money is being used to pay for real spending projects.”

lastly, Obama has never produced a budget that has garnered 1 yea vote! Why is that. Best line- trickle down governement.

 

and today's job numbers are bogus. Jack Welch tweet: Unbelievable jobs numbers..these Chicago guys will do anything..can't debate so change number

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The eternal Thompson gunner/
Still wandering through the night/
Now it's ten years later/
But he still keeps up the fight/
In Ireland, In Lebanon/
In Palestine and Berkeley/
Patty Hearst/
Heard the burst/
Of Roland's Thompson gun/
And bought it.

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I am tired of Obama never being incorrect or having done anything wrong. The arrogance is immense

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Roland searched the continent/
For the man who'd done him in/
He found him in Mombasa/
In a bar room drinking gin/
Roland aimed his Thompson gun/
He didn't say a word/
But he blew Van Owen's body/
From there to Johannesburg/

Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner/
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner/
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner/
Talkin about the man/
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner

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I am also sick and tired of the racce baiting on the left. Blaming his performance on he did not want to be seen as a angry black man. Liberals use race (or gender) for everyting. Obama, the man, caused these economic conditions. Obama, the man, is hiding Libya from us. Obama, the man, support Ayers and Rev. Wright. Obama, the man, got his hat handed to him the other night becuase he is arrogant.

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You can't put a single person to work by taxing rich people.  Economics doesn't work that way Democrats.   And if you didn't understand that before, you should understand it by now, after the last three years of selling that fantasy.

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Their objective is redistribution, not growth.

Facts, guys, facts. Evidence. You can do better.

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laid out plenty below.

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Scott,

 

I believe you forgot to put the disclaimer, I'M Barack Obama and I approved this message! The president stated I'm here to talk about the future. So in other words, let's not talk about my abysmal record. Scott, why not tell everyone how his administration botched Fast & Furious, he had to use executive priviledge to protect Holder. How about his foreign policies failures, having his minions telling everyone the killing of Americans on 9/11 were because of a video and not an act of terrorism. Tell everyone how we are spending $3 billion a day in interest on the debt that he has increased by $5 trillion in 4 years. How he alternative energy policy is an abysmal failure, how middle income families have decreased their income by over 10% in the past 4 years, gas prices and food prices are at all time highs?

It isn't Obama's fault. You see he had total control of congress for two years and accomplished nothing!!! So that gives him 4 years of ZERO accomplishments, but to the Globe and MSNBC crowd, it is George Bush's fault and evil republican. Next you will be telling us Elizabeth Warren is really an Indian and she never used it for her advantage or by Harvard reporting her as a minority, they broke federal law by reporting things to the federal government which isn't true!

The tough guy from Chicago got his fanny whipped by Mitt and liberals don't want to admit what everyone else saw! Besides the disclaimer at the end, your forgot to start your story with Once upon a time....

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Talk about ugly, partisan BS.  Interesting how GW's policies are killing us now and the reason the president appears so useless yet Clinton is solely responsible for for growth in the 90's.  Though he did little to foster the growth that happened.   Also even more sickening how you forget that Bush dealt with 9/11, 2 wars and a major financial collapse that was, at a bare minimum a 50/50 split between the parties and had little to do with Bush's administration.  Dems act like we werent at less than 5% unemployment before the Barney Frank housing plan crashed.  Just disturbing lies that Scot repeats. 

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From Townhall.com columnist John Hawkins

You accept the idea that George W. Bush is responsible for all the problems we have now because the President of the United States is so powerful, but you also believe that Barack Obama isn't responsible for anything that's going wrong because Republicans in Congress won't let him do anything he wants.