WASHINGTON — When Senator Susan Collins, the Maine Republican, got her turn to question health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. during a committee hearing Wednesday, the exchange encapsulated the controversial appointee’s highly anticipated return to Capitol Hill.
Collins, who voted to confirm Kennedy to the post in February, conveyed her concerns that widespread staff cuts at the Department of Health and Human Services would imperil federal Alzheimer’s research programs authorized by legislation she authored.
How could Kennedy ensure the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention implements those programs, asked Collins, “when all of the staff responsible for that administration have either been placed on administrative leave or let go?”
“I don’t know enough about that program,” replied Kennedy. But, he suggested, it might have been folded into another office during the sweeping reorganization project he has executed. Kennedy couldn’t talk about that reorganization, he said, due to an ongoing legal challenge, and promised to work with Collins on her “line item.”
Similar inconclusive exchanges played out when senators of both parties asked Kennedy about spending and staff cuts to other initiatives, including lead poisoning prevention efforts, a well-known program to prevent infant sleep deaths, heating assistance to the poor, the agency that oversees workplace safety, and clinical cancer trials at the National Institutes of Health.
Over and over Kennedy replied he wasn’t aware of the specifics of the massive changes under his watch. At other moments, he downplayed some concerns, or outright insisted certain things didn’t happen — such as claiming that “no working scientist” in the federal government had been fired by the Trump administration. (Many scientists have testified they have been fired.)
Only a few times did Kennedy acknowledge the fallout, as when Senator Andy Kim, a New Jersey Democrat, pressed him about layoffs at a federal health program for 9/11 victims and first responders.
“We made a couple of mistakes,” Kennedy said, “and that was one.”
Though Kennedy was confirmed as HHS secretary just three months ago, it seemed as if lawmakers had years’ worth of questions to ask — reflecting the remarkable upheaval to the public health system in such a short time.
Kennedy has dutifully taken up President Trump and Elon Musk’s unprecedented government-slashing effort to upend a federal health system he has long antagonized as misguided and ineffective.
The result has been the departure of tens of thousands of HHS staff, representing 20 percent of the department’s workforce, through layoffs, resignations, or buyouts. Entire offices have been hollowed out, and many billions of dollars in grants for medical and scientific research axed. The secretary has promised to reduce inefficiencies by folding agencies he labeled as redundant into a new entity called an “Administration for a Healthy America.”
The Senate health committee had first invited Kennedy to testify on April 10, but he declined. So when he did appear in that committee’s chamber on Wednesday, and before a subcommittee of the House Appropriations panel earlier in the day, the urgency was palpable from members — and not just among Democrats.
Senator Bill Cassidy, the Republican chairman of the Senate health panel, opened the hearing by framing it as an opportunity for Kennedy to “set the record straight” after months of news about the drastic changes at his agency. In February, Cassidy — a physician by training — was the most crucial vote to confirm Kennedy, and he justified his support by saying the nominee had made a number of commitments to him as to how he’d perform as secretary.
When Cassidy asked Kennedy how he intended for federal health agencies to do more with less while competing with rivals such as China, the secretary replied, “The Chinese are not spending a lot of money on DEI.”
After Collins pressed Kennedy on the Alzheimer’s program, Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska conveyed her concern about cuts to the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, or LIHEAP, which helps low-income people pay to heat and cool their homes — a critical resource in Murkowski’s frigid home state.
The pressure on one of the most controversial aspects of Kennedy’s tenure — vaccines — came almost exclusively from Democrats. Long known for raising fears about vaccines and linking them to conditions such as autism, Kennedy promised senators he would do nothing as secretary to limit public access to vaccines or interfere with congressionally appropriated funding for vaccine programs.
But he has sent mixed signals so far amid the most serious measles outbreak the country has seen in years, currently unfolding in Texas. Kennedy has recommended vaccination as the best protection against measles, but he has also downplayed the effectiveness of the vaccine, claimed it causes deaths, and suggested that getting measles itself would provide better immunity.
Senator Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat, tried to underscore the confusion Kennedy’s remarks have generated. “I want you to acknowledge when you say you support the measles vaccines and go out and undermine the vaccine. . . . That is not supporting the vaccine,” he said.
Noting the promises Kennedy made to senators during the confirmation process, Murphy said, “If I were the chairman, and believed what you said about supporting vaccines, my head would be exploding.”
Kennedy grew frustrated with Murphy, interrupting him to ask him to repeat claims and, at one point, scoffing, “You don’t know what you’re talking about.”
Cassidy was absent for the exchange, and he did not interject to counter Kennedy’s claims on vaccines, except once, to correct a statement by Kennedy about the thoroughness of vaccine testing.
While Kennedy skeptics may have been eager for a chance to question him, some were disappointed by the results of a hearing that saw contentious and sometimes personal exchanges between the secretary and lawmakers.
Before Kennedy’s appearance, Senator Ed Markey, of Malden, printed red booklets filled with constituent fears and anxieties over Kennedy’s leadership, dubbing it the “Make America Sick Again” agenda. “He keeps denying the reality of the harm which has already been caused by the cuts, which he and Donald Trump support,” Markey told the Globe during a break in the hearing.
Though he downplayed some staff and spending cuts — and came close to apologizing for others — Kennedy ultimately validated the mission that Trump and Musk say they are trying to accomplish by slashing the size of government.
Federal budget deficits, Kennedy said, would threaten the country’s ability to improve the health care system going forward.
“We intend to do a lot more,” he said, “with a lot less.”
Sam Brodey can be reached at sam.brodey@globe.com. Follow him @sambrodey.